YahShua Ha' Moschiach
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Howard Davies Jihad simply means 'holy war'.27 April at 21:08 · ·
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- YahShua Ha' Moschiach The Holy War that the God of the Bible did, and the "holy war" the Muslims do are in no way the same.
God annihilated Amalekites, Canaanites, because they were evil. But Allah wants to annihilate non Muslims simply because they're non Muslims.27 April at 21:12 via Mobile · - Howard Davies True, they have no justification for killing. They are guilty.27 April at 21:13 · · 1
Sanah SnhJesus Christ (peace be upon him) preached Jihad too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k89fd-K25wk and why is Jihad wrong? If someone attacks you why shouldnt we fight back? God says: "And fight in the Way of Allâh those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing." (2:190-191) 28 April at 18:10 · · 2- YahShua Ha' Moschiach Jesus did not preach Jihad. Stop believing liars that want to take the Word of God out of context. Why do you rely your interpretations of the Scriptures on YouTube? Get your interpretation STRAIGHT from the Bible.Sunday at 06:10 via Mobile ·
- YahShua Ha' Moschiach Vengeance is wrong.
Fighting people who fight us is wrong. Don't you know that God is holy? Hatred is a sin. How come you believe hating someone and then kill them is okay?Sunday at 06:12 via Mobile · 
Craig Roberts Sis I understand what you are saying I do. Remember thou when JESUS comes back it is for the holy war of all holy wars.Sunday at 10:16 via Mobile ·- Craig RobertsIt will be to put a stop to all killing and death in the name of false gods but a war none the less. In some places the blood will flow like rivers. His wrath is awesome. I know GOD LOVES ME. I do he wants us to spread his word. His unending love for all men. He sacrificed his only son that we would not have to receive damnation. He will love us all the way to the gates of hell if need be. But the slaughter here on earth will be the likes of which have never been seen before. What's so bad is that it does not have to be but people will not change. They will see it are seeing it with there own eyes and still refuse to accept JESUS as LORD and SAVIOR and MASTER.Sunday at 10:31 via Mobile ·
- Sanah SnhAnd He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.
Luke 22:36
And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables;
John 2:15
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.
Ecclesiastes 3:8
Defense is necessary and justified. If a person murders your family member, wouldn't you want justice? God can never be unjust. The victim has the right to defend himself.Sunday at 13:38 · · 1 
Hiba AbdullahBrother YahShua Ha' Moschiach
You said... "God annihilated Amalekites, Canaanites, because they were evil. But Allah wants to annihilate non Muslims simply because they're non Muslims."
Let's see if it's true.
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Jesus in Luke 19:27)
HERE THE VERSE IS SAYING CLEARLY THAT THE ONLY REASON FOR KILLING THE DISBELIEVERS IS, THEY ARE DISBELIEVERS!
IF YOU ARE AN HONEST CHRISTIAN PLEASE SHOW ME A SINGLE VERSE IN THE QUR'AN WHICH SAYS THAT YOU MUST KILL A DISBELIEVER JUST BECAUSE HE IS A DISBELIEVER!Sunday at 23:45 · · 3- YahShua Ha' MoschiachYou muslims need to STOP taking verses out of context.
Sanah, glad you realize that God is just. So then you agree that God can't just "forgive" sinners, there must be punishments for their sins. Muslims say, "God is ALL FORGIVING AND MERCIFUL" and you know to be "all forgiving" isn't enough and satisfactory to fulfill the demands of God's justice. Now you say God is just, yet you say, "defense is necessary and justified. If a person murders your family members wouldn't you want justice?"
The question is, is it YOU or God who knows justice? If it's God, then why do you want to replace Him in seeking justice?
Jesus sacrifice on the cross fulfilled the demands of the justice of God. Why so? Because He took all of our punishments. He's a perfect sacrifice. No sin is greater then the other. You don't murder, yet you steal, then you're as well a law offender. How can a law offender judge another law offender? Because Jesus has no sin, that's why He has the right to judge you. But know what? He didn't come to judge sinners, but to SAVE THEM.
For the verse where Jesus intructed His disciples to buy sword is to fulfill the prophecy, "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end." (Luke 22:36-37 KJV).
For the Ecclesiastes verse, isn't it true there's a time for everything? It speaks of GENERAL circumstances. It is how the world revolves, but there's no endorsement to have wars with the non believers. It's saying that war and peace come one at a time. How can you get another idea but just that? Is it because war is all that your mind can think about? Islam is all about the flesh's desires, isn't it? Well, but when we die, our flesh will perish. Hatred, wars, is all the flesh wants. But spirit wants peace, love, self control, patience.Monday at 01:25 via Mobile · - Hiba AbdullahBrother YahShua Ha' Moschiach
It is you who is taking the Bible for granted and speaking whatever comes convenient to you. It was very handy for you to make a blanket statement... "God annihilated Amalekites, Canaanites, because they were evil."
Can you show me from the Bible what was the evil record which demanded to kill them en masse?
Here are a few details, for other readers... "Am'alekites were a tribe that dwelt in Arabia Petraea, between the Dead Sea and the Red Sea. They were not the descendants of Amalek, the son of Eliphaz, for they existed in the days of Abraham (Gen. 14:7). They were probably a tribe that migrated from the shores of the Persian Gulf and settled in Arabia. 'They dwelt in the land of the south......from Havilah until thou comest to Shur' (Num. 13:29; 1 Sam. 15:7).
They were a pastoral, and hence a nomadic race. Their kings bore the hereditary name of Agag (Num. 24:7; 1 Sam. 15:8). They attempted to stop the Israelites when they marched through their territory (Deut. 25:18)."
NOW BROTHER YahShua Ha' Moschiach WILL SHOW US THE DEPLORABLE EVIL DEEDS OF THESE PEOPLE.Monday at 23:58 · · 2 - YahShua Ha' Moschiach Oh Hiba, I tried to post the Quarnic verses as you demanded but connection got bad so I delayed and I almost forgot, I'm sorry. Give me a few, I will post the Surahs :)
- Sanah SnhJesus Christ said: “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” (Matthew, Chapter 10)
It would not be right to conclude that the religion preached by Christ was one of war and violence, for such utterances relate purely to particular occasions. So far as general life is concerned, Christ taught peaceful values, such as the building up of a good character, loving each other, helping the poor and needy, etc.
The same is true of the Qur'an. When the Prophet of Islam emigrated from Mecca to Medina, the idolatrous tribes were aggressive towards him. But the Prophet always averted their attacks by the exercise of patience and the strategy of avoidance. However on certain occasions no other options existed, save that of retaliation. Therefore, he had do battle on certain occasions. It was these circumstances, which occasioned those revelations relating to war. These commands, being specific to certain circumstances, had no general application. That is why; the permanent status of the Prophet has been termed a ‘mercy for all mankind.’ (21:107)
Islam is a religion of peace in the fullest sense of the word. And it encourages peace: “And good and evil deeds are not alike. Repel evil with good. And he who is your enemy will become your dearest friend.” (41:33-34)
That is to say, Islam believes in turning one’s enemy into a friend through peaceful means, instead of declaring him an enemy and then waging war against him.Yesterday at 00:18 · · 2 - YahShua Ha' MoschiachHiba, have you seen Christians waged wars against the Muslims? And I mean true Christians, so don't even mention about the crusades since it's not done by Christians but Catholics.
If you haven't seen any Christians kill a non believer, then there must be something wrong with your interpretation :)
The NT verse you quoted, Jesus was simply saying that whoever that doesn't believe in Him will perish, in the afterlife. Whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. He's talking about the hereafter. Not a command to kill the non Christians :)
So there is an outcome of every decision a human makes, if you believe you will prosper after you die, but if you don't, you will perish. And it's God Himself who will war against the non believeing people, not His followers. But Allah uses his followers to punish those who don't believe him. As if Allah can't do nothing to give himself a favor.
And Quran's killing of the non believers takes place in this life and in the hereafter they're sent to hell. Yet your Quran says Allah the most merciful?
You ask for a verse where the Quran asks Muslims to kill the non believers. I will not give you one as you requested. But I will give you some lest you say I've taken Quran out of context. I have 2 Quranic translations at the moment and will have the third in a few while. So, the verses that I will quote, will be from those 2 Quranic translations that I have, Pickthall and Shakir.
Surah 2:190-191 (Shakir) And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. AND KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, THEN SLAY THEM; SUCH IS THE RECOMPENSE OF THE UNBELIEVERS.
S. 2:216-218 (Shakir) FIGHTING IS ENJOINED ON YOU, AND IT IS AN OBJECT OF DISLIKE TO YOU; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know. They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever-these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide. Surely those who believed and those who fled (their home) and strove hard in the way of Allah these hope for the mercy of Allah and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
S. 4:74-77 (Pickthall) Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious. On him we shall bestow a vast reward. How should ye not fight for the cause of Allah and of the feeble among men and of the women and the children who are crying: Our Lord! Bring us forth from out this town of which the people are oppressors! Oh, give us from Thy presence some protecting friend! Oh, give us from Thy presence some defender! Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! The devils strategy is ever weak. Hast thou not seen those unto whom it was said: Withhold your hands, establish worship and pay the poor-due, but when fighting was prescibed for them behold! A party of them fear mankind even as their fear of Allah or with greater fear, and say: Our Lord! Why hast Thou ordained fighting for us? If only Thou wouldst give us respite yet a while! Say (unto them, O Muhammad): The comfort of this world is scant: the Hereafter will be better for him who wardeth off (evil) and ye will not be wronged the dawn upon a date-stone.
S. 4:84 (Pickthall) So fight (O Muhammad) in the way of Allah-Thou art, not taxed (with the responsibility for anyone) except for thyself-and urge on the believers. Peradventure, Allah will restrain the might of those who disbelieve. Allah is stronger in might and stronger in inflicting punishment.
S. 8:12 (Pickthall) When thy Lord inspired the angels (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I WILL THROW FEAR INTO THE HEARTS OF THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE. THEN SMITE THE NECKS AND SMITE OF THEM EACH FINGER.
S. 8:39 (Pickthall) And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.
Check out S. 8:65-75 where Allah told Muhammad to exhort the believers (Muslims) to fight the non believers (non Muslims)
S. 9:5 (Pickthall) Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Check out:
S. 9:12-14; 9:16; 9:19-20; 9:24-26; 9:29; 9:36; 9:38-39; 9:73; 9:81; 9:86; 9:111; 9:120; 9:122-123; 16:110; 22:78; 25:52; 29:6; 47:4;47:35; 66:9
Too violent to post. There are kids that read this too. So you better check them all out yourself.Yesterday at 00:37 via Mobile · - YahShua Ha' Moschiach Sanah, I'd like to hear from your own knowledge, not websites. Plagiarism is against the Law :)Yesterday at 00:39 via Mobile ·
- Sanah Snh That's what I had to say. Qur'an commands peace and forgiveness and turning your enemy into your friend, what do you have to say about that?Yesterday at 00:40 · · 2
- Sanah Snh Brother YahShua, you posted all those verses of Jihad and conveniently concluded that these verses are asking Muslims to kill non-Muslims. Please check this out, get your information right: http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=-SYpz_2Kfzw, http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4u-5ZJ2Frzk. It's midnight here and I got to leave. Please check this out and open your eyes to the truth. God bless www.youtube.comThe most militant chapter in the Quran: Chapter NineYesterday at 00:44 · · 1 · - Sanah Snh You've quoted all those verses that were revealed specifically in the context of battles that were fought for self-defense, a situation when muslims were being killed, their homes and property destroyed and they had to protect themselves and then you say Islam is violent? and you cancel out 234 verses of the Quran that say peace and not war. That's bias.Yesterday at 00:56 · · 2
- YahShua Ha' MoschiachSo when it's violent verses you say I take it out of context, but when it is peaceful verses, then I take it in context? Is that what you're saying?
Can I safely say then, you agree that you're following the fairy tale of 600 AD because only a few verses are ok to follow, the rest are not?
So you follow the verses revealed in Mekkah and not Madinah. Wasn't Muhammad a prophet too when he was in Mekkah slaying the non believers's necks, establishing his religion with his sword?
Did you ever hear Jesus wage war against the non believers? Was Christianity established by blood? - YahShua Ha' Moschiach Sorry, I meant wasn't he a prophet too when he was in Maddinah. I'm half asleep.
- YahShua Ha' Moschiach Hiba, your own comment answers your own question. Here, I copied an excerpt from your comment:
"..... They attempted to stop the Israelites when they marched through their territory (Deut. 25:18)." - Sanah SnhHavent you watched the videos I gave you? You just pick a verse from the 6000 verses of the Quran that were revealed over a period of 23 years in different situations, and you say that those verses mean what you want to make them mean?
You quote the verse about jihad from Surah Tawbah but u ignore the preceding verses that explain why was this command given. You quote from Surah Baqarah "kill them wherever you find them" but you ignore the previous verse that says "Fight those who fight you". You're not being sincere.
Self-defense is the right of every human being. Every human being has the right to live and protect their life and property. How can you call that evil? Even killing someone in self defense is legal in the constitutional laws we live under.
Brother yahshua, if you don't want to be Muslim, don't be. But at least be a sincere christian. Don't malign Islam because of your half knowledge. Christians and Muslims are closest to each other. Allah,Alah,Elah are different words for the same God - The Creator. God says in the Quran "...and nearest among them in love to the believers (muslims) will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (Qur'an 5:82)
(i) Islam is the only non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (pbuh). No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus (pbuh).
(ii) We believe that he was one of the mightiest Messengers of God.
(iii) We believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians do not believe.
(iv) We believe he was the Messiah translated Christ (pbuh).
(v) We believe that he gave life to the dead with God's permission.
(iv) We believe that he healed those born blind, and the lepers with God's permission.
One may ask, if Muslims love Jesus Christ (pbuh) too then why don't they worship him?
This is because Muslims follow the commandment of Jesus pbuh:
"The Lord our God is ONE LORD."
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]
"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’ And he said unto him, ‘WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD? THERE IS NONE GOOD, BUT ONE, THAT IS GOD: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent." [The Bible, John 17:3]
"He is God in heaven above, and on the earth below there is no other." [Deuteronomy 4:39]
Jesus pbuh taught the Islamic Shahadah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjTGv8cQLnk
The only difference between you and us is that you say "Love God, Worship Jesus", we say "Worship God, Love Jesus" - Sanah Snhand Islam was not established by blood. You say he killed the non-believers in Makkah to establish Islam? Have you even read why these battles of Badr, Uhud, etc. were fought against the pagans of Makkah? Don't you know that the idol-worshi...See more21 hours ago · · 1
- Sanah SnhYou say "They attempted to stop the Israelites when they marched through the territory", so it's okay that "God annihilated Amalekites, Canaanites, because they were evil." and before that you say "Vengeance is wrong." Then, God is wrong because He annihilated these people in return for their evil actions?
God's last messenger Muhammad (s) said: 'Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or is oppressed.' A man asked: 'O Messenger of Allaah! I (know how to) help him when he is oppressed, but how can I help him when he is an oppressor?' He (s) said: 'You can restrain him from committing oppression. That will be your help to him.'” [Al-Bukhaari & Muslim]
The oppressor must be stopped from oppressing people. This is the right thing to do. These police men and military men who are highly honored and who ensure peace in our places and homes...what do they do? They have guns they have arms, they fight back against the oppressors. This is what makes them heroes! Don't tell me police men are evil too because they fight back?21 hours ago · · 1 - YahShua Ha' MoschiachSanah, I will not take "websites" as an answer. If you want to debate with me, refrain from posting links, I appreciate your own thoughts more than websites. So yes, I'm sorry, I will not check any website you post. It only proves to me that that's all your knowledge comes from. If you were truthful, you would search the Bible yourself instead of relying your interpretations from other Muslims who don't know the Bible just like you.
I suggest you, read the Bible yourself. I read the Quran myself, so my interpretation of it is not influenced by the Anti Islamic websites. Your interpretation has been influenced by anti Christian websites.
Police are the government tools which are assigned by God to establish justice on earth. How can you compare policemen with Muslims who go for Jihad? That don't even make sense. However though, I know you CONDONE barbaric attitude of your religion. Then by all means, go ahead. I can only pray for you :)19 hours ago via Mobile · - Sanah Snh Police establish peace by giving justice to the victim, that's exactly the point of Jihad. When people fight you and harm you, you fight back to defend yourself. You still don't see the similarity?
- Sanah SnhOk don't check out the videos but check out the reply I gave you. I hope you realize that you are not being sincere. The ahadith (saying of the Prophet Muhammad (S)), the tafseer (commentary of the verse by the companions of the prophet), the asbab al nuzool (the context and reason for revelation of the verses), all together give a meaning to a verse. Islam is not just Quran. Islam is all these things put together. But you with your limited knowledge, interpret the Quran the way you want it. You don't realize that the verses of Quran were revealed on different occasion in period 23 years, they were revealed in different situations, they have an explanation in the hadith.19 hours ago · · 1
- YahShua Ha' MoschiachNope. Policemen exist TO PUNISH evil doers. But a religious person should strife to bring peace on earth to make the task of the policemen lighter by bringing peace instead of fighting back those who fight them. Jesus can teach you how to love your enemies, just as Jesus loves you although you keep hurting Him by your disbelief. Oh, go ahead and say you are closer to Jesus more than any Christians on earth, you can keep fooling yourself :)
I do not own a hadith, it's very expensive :)
However, God's Word is Eternal, not just for some occassions. If verses only valid for a past event where Muhammad existed, then Islam as a whole is no longer valid as a religion. If Allah is eternal, his word should be eternal too. It should serve all generations from time to time.
The Bible tells us that the Word of God stands forever.16 hours ago via Mobile · - Hiba AbdullahBrother YahShua Ha' Moschiach
WHAT AN INTERPRETATION! YOU WILL MAKE HITLER LOOK LIKE SAINT!
See what you have said ... "The NT verse you quoted, Jesus was simply saying that whoever that doesn't believe in Him will perish, in the afterlife. Whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. He's talking about the hereafter. Not a command to kill the non Christians :)"
And this goody goody interpretations are for... "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Jesus in Luke 19:27)
IF YOU ARE UNBIASED, YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN THE QURANIC VERSES ALSO IN THE SAME GOODY GOODY WAY. THEN YOU WOULD HAVE FOUND QURAN TO BE MUCH MORE LOVING AND KIND THAN BIBLE. WHY DID YOU INTERPRET THE QURANIC VERSES WITH SO MUCH HOSTILITY IN YOUR HEART?16 hours ago · · 1 - Hiba AbdullahBrother YahShua Ha' Moschiach
You said... "Hiba, have you seen Christians waged wars against the Muslims? And I mean true Christians, so don't even mention about the crusades since it's not done by Christians but Catholics."
Yes, I have seen. I have seen bunches of Christian rogue nations coming together and attacking defenceless poor Muslim nations and killing millions of their innocent civilians. They are simply following what Bible says in Luke 19:27. - Hiba Abdullah Brother YahShua Ha' Moschiach
You said... "And Quran's killing of the non believers takes place in this life and in the hereafter they're sent to hell. Yet your Quran says Allah the most merciful?"
In fact, it's the Bible which says, you must kill a non-believer JUST BECAUSE HE IS A NON-BELIEVER. But the Qur'an doesn't say so. More over, even the Bible says that the sinners shall BURN IN HELL. - Sanah SnhBrother Yahshua, Please don't assume things. Please read and understand correctly what I say. The verses were revealed in a situation where there was a defensive war between the Makkan pagans and the Muslims who refused to idol-worship and believed in Islam (worshiping One God and believing in all his messengers, Adam, David, Solomon, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc. and finally Muhammad).
And police men exist to defend the people, punish evildoers and bring peace. Jihad is to defend your people, punish the evil doers and thereby bring peace in the land. It's the same thing. Do you see that now?
Qur'an also says that you make your enemy your friend. You reply evil with good. But when a situation comes where any people (whatever their religion) want to kill your people, or destroy your property you fight back to defend your life and property. How can that be evil? “And good and evil deeds are not alike. Repel evil with good. And he who is your enemy will become your dearest friend.” (Qur'an 41:33-34)16 hours ago · · 1 - Sanah Snhand yes Allah is most merciful "I am indeed forgiving to him who Repents, Believes, Does righteous good deeds, And remains constant in doing them." (Qur'an 20:82) A man came to the Prophet (S) and said: “What do you make of a man who did ev...See more16 hours ago · · 1
- Hiba AbdullahBrother YahShua Ha' Moschiach
You have quoted the verse which was quoted by Sanah Snh. Thank you for quoting this. As Sanah has mentioned above, you have quoted it out of context. Not only that, you have conveniently closed your eyes because keeping them open would defeat the false allegations you are making :)
Read again. Emphasis mine... "Surah 2:190-191 (Shakir) And fight in the way of Allah
1. WITH THOSE WHO FIGHT WITH YOU, and ------------ (THEY have initiated war.)
2. DO NOT EXCEED THE LIMITS, -------------------- (still you can't exceed limits.)
3. surely ALLAH DOES NOT LOVE THOSE WHO EXCEED THE LIMITS. ---------- (This is God's justice restricting believers against offending disbelievers.)
4. And kill them wherever you find THEM, -------- (the pronoun THEM refers to the same aggressors above.)
5. and drive them out FROM WHENCE THEY DROVE YOU OUT, -------- (means, initially you were made homeless. this is only recovery. that too IF AND ONLY IF they initiate a war.)
6. and PERSECUTION IS SEVERER THAN SLAUGHTER, ---------- (you were persecuted for several years.)
7. and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque UNTIL THEY FIGHT WITH YOU IN IT, ----- (again under restrictions UNTIL the evil people initiate a war.)
8. but IF THEY DO FIGHT YOU, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. ---- (again, initiation is from the evil people.)"
Please ponder with an unbiased mind :)16 hours ago · · 1 - Hiba Abdullah Brother YahShua Ha' Moschiach
You said.. "Sanah , I'd like to hear from your own knowledge, not websites. Plagiarism is against the Law :)"
I understand you said this in the lighter vein. However, plagiarism is ONLY in cases where we claim THESE ARE OUR OWN IDEAS where as we are using someone else's ideas. Here, she has quoted the Bible and Qur'an with proper references. So, this is not plagiarism :)16 hours ago · · 1 - Hiba AbdullahBrother YahShua Ha' Moschiach
You said to Sanah ..."Can I safely say then, you agree that you're following the fairy tale of 600 AD because only a few verses are ok to follow, the rest are not?"
You need to understand a lot more theology brother. Commands are two types. General. Situational.
Praying everyday, charity, fasting every year and so on are GENERAL commands which are always in force.
Situational are commands which are applicable to specific situation. Here I am coming to your main question. These commands will be followed IF A SIMILAR SITUATION REPEATS. Not daily! :)15 hours ago · · 1 - Hiba Abdullah You asked... "Was Christianity established by blood?"
See the OT again, it's bleeding till date with the bloody wars waged by Israelis against the other innocent races.15 hours ago · · 1 - Hiba AbdullahBrother YahShua Ha' Moschiach
You said... "Hiba , your own comment answers your own question. Here, I copied an excerpt from your comment: ..... They attempted to stop the Israelites when they marched through their territory (Deut. 25:18)."
By God's Grace, I wasn't half asleep while I was typing that :)
THEY DON'T BECOME EVIL PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY DEFENDED THEIR TERRITORY. A COMMAND TO KILL THEM EN MASSE IS DEFINITELY RACIST AND EXTREMELY INHUMAN AS WELL AS UN-DIVINE :)15 hours ago · · 1 - Hiba AbdullahBrother YahShua Ha' Moschiach
You said to Sanah ..."Nope. Policemen exist TO PUNISH evil doers. But a religious person should strife to bring peace on earth to make the task of the policemen lighter by bringing peace instead of fighting back those who fight them."
This is precisely what I said, you need to understand a lot more principles of theology. Different commands are given to different people. Some commands are for judges, some for military officers, some for heads of state, some only for Muslims, some only for non Muslims, and yet there are some for all the people together :)
ALL THE COMMANDS OF JIHAD ARE SPECIFIC TO THE SOLDIERS WHO ARE TAKING ACTIVE PART IN A WAR :)15 hours ago · · 1 - Hiba Abdullah Before closing for the day.
You don't have to reply to ALL my comments. You don't have to reply to ANY SPECIFIC comment of my choice. Please feel free to pick any of my comments and continue discussion from there :)
May God Almighty guide us all on the true path of salvation. aameen. :)15 hours ago · · 1 -
- YahShua Ha' MoschiachHiba.
Lol. When Jesus existed, did He slay people and rob caravans as Muhammad did? You totally out of your senses.
About the Amalekites, let's see if you even read the Bible to make such claim. (I'd suggest you have a Bible concordance, it will help you to study the Bible better, btw).
"Then Amalek came and fought against Israel at Rephidim." (Exodus 17:8 NASB). This is the first verse that speaks of war against the Amalekites. Amalekites came and attacked Israelites. There's no word that suggests they were defending their territory. Amalekites were simply trying to stop Israelites to continue their journey to Canaan. And that's evil in the sight of the Lord. For they could be peaceful, but they chose to be Barbaric. But I know, the spirit that is behind you, your false prophet, and your barbaric religion is the same spirit behind the Amalekites, so you will definitely condone their barbaric actions. For in this convo it is very clear how you condone Jihad and the killing of the innocence.
In Christianity, we are taught that only God is the Judge. In Christianity, we are told to spread the Gospel with love, not with sword.
You are trying to water down the actual meaning of Jihad by saying Jihad exists to establish justice as the policemen do. But hey, as the Quranic verses state it very clear, Jihad is fighting for the cause of Allah to establish the religion of Allah until there is no more religion on earth. Let me tell you something, to embrace a religion is man's basic human right. But we know, Islam doesn't teach you respect. Allah has to have his way or die. Christianity says: God's desire is to have all men to be saved. So, God's way is for all men to be saved, but the Bible also says: if they reject you, dust them off. God wants all men to be saved, but He doesn't impose and force His will on men. For if they won't follow Him, then it's fine with Him. But, God also says, if they won't follow Him, the punishment is in the hereafter, not in this life, and it's Him that will punish them, not us.
S. 9:29 (Yusuf Ali) FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, NOR ACKNOWLEDGE THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya WITH WILLING SUBMISSION, AND FEEL THEMSELVES SUBDUED.
S. 9:5 (Yusuf Ali) But when the forbidden months are past, then FIGHT AND SLAY THE PAGANS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND SEIZE THEM, BELEAGUER THEM, AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY STRATEGEM (OF WAR); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
S. 9:20-22 (Yusuf Ali) Those who believe, and suffer exile and STRIVE WITH MIGHT AND MAIN, IN THE CAUSE OF ALLAH, with their goods and their persons, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah: they are the people who will achieve (salvation). Their Lord gives them glad tidings of a Mercy from Himself, of His good pleasure, and of Gardens for them, wherein are delights that endure: They will dwell therein for ever. Verily in Allah's presence is a reward, the greatest (of all).7 hours ago via Mobile · - YahShua Ha' MoschiachS. 8:39 (Pickthall) And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.
S. 8:39 (Shakir) And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
S. 8:39 (Yusuf Ali) And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah sees all that they do.
Jihad is meant to establish the religion of Allah, Islam, so don't even try to tell different than what your Quran says. :)6 hours ago via Mobile · - Sanah SnhBrother Yahshua, you quote the verses from Surah tawbah (chapter 9) but you ignore the very first verses! These commands of war were against the pagans who broke the peace treaty. DON'T PICK AND CHOOSE VERSES TO PRESENT ISLAM IN A BAD LIGHT. I tell you again, please fear God, please be sincere.
The Prophet and his companions were prevented by the pagan Arabs from performing their pilgrimage to Makkah. Instead of fighting, and despite the willingness of his followers to enforce their religious rights, the Prophet chose a peaceful settlement.
Two years later, the pagan Arabs broke the treaty by attacking and killing 20 allies of the Muslims as they slept. It is internationally recognized that when one party breaks a treaty, the other party is released from its obligations.
Even after this attack, no bloody revenge was taken against those who broke the treaty. In fact, when the Muslims finally entered Mecca, amnesty was granted to nearly all former enemies. The Quran states: 'Yes, whoever
fulfills his pledge and fears Allah much; verily, then Allah loves those who are the pious.' (3:76). Also: 'And fulfill (every) covenant.' (17:34)
No nation can go on with a treaty if the other party violates it at will. Yet four months' time was given so that they may repent for the evil they did. SO THIS WAR WAS ONLY AGAINST THOSE WHO BROKE THE PEACE TREATY AND KILLED INNOCENT MUSLIM. You conveniently ignore verse 9:4 "Except those of the pagan with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So FULFILL THEIR TREATY TO THEM to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves the God-fearing."
Why are you being so insincere?
You quote verses from Surah Anfaal (chapter 8). Do you even know that these verses were revealed for the battle of Badr? Do you know why the battle of Badr took place? You say Muhammad (s) and his companions "robbed" the caravan? Don't you know that when the muslims were being persecuted in makkah they migrated to madinah for safety and the makkan pagans took away all their wealth and property in makkah and they wanted to get it back from them? Do you know that the muslims suffered for 10 years, and only then they were allowed to fight back? Do you know that the pagans stopped the muslims from performing pilgrimage at Makkah? Do you know that these Makkan pagans felt no remorse for all that they did? You simply jump to verse 8:39 and claim that the muslims should fight so that everyone on earth becomes muslim and they must kill non-Muslims. You are being so insincere. God is watching how you are covering up the truth and maligning the innocent.
8:33 And Allâh would not punish them while you (Muhammad SAW) are amongst them, NOR WILL HE PUNISH THEM WHILE THEY SEEK FORGIVENESS.
8:34 And why should not Allâh punish them while they stop (men) from Al-Masjid-al-Harâm, and they are not its guardians? None can be its guardian except the pious, but most of them know not.
8:35 Their Salât (prayer) at the House (of Allâh, i.e. the Ka'bah at Makkah) was nothing but whistling and clapping of hands. Therefore taste the punishment because you used to disbelieve.
You have no problem when the bible mentions that God punished the amalekites who stopped the israelites and attacked them, according to the bible. But you have a problem when God commanded to fight against those who stopped the innocent from their worship and those who killed their families and took away their property?
You're being bias. I hope you realize that. Please don't spread misinformation about any religion only for your personal gains. If u dont want to convert to a religion then don't, but don't spread lies about that religion to show that your religion is better.
